Fanfic: Threat, or menace?

[thebitterguy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, today on People on the Internet getting Angry about Stuff, we present Robin Hobb, famed author of something. Apparently, Ms. Hobb doesn't like fanfic, so she has taken valuable writing time to let us all know.

You know, it's amusing. I don't like fanfic either. If you'd like to lubricate my brain with delicious alcohol sometime, I'll be happy to tell you about the time I was trapped in a hotel on the outskirts of Lansing, Michigan at Media*West (what is the opposite of a sausage fest, kids?), and the horrors I experienced within. You'll never be able to see a rerun of The Sentinel

I also agree with her that FanFic probably stifles a great deal of a writer's creativity. I have a dear friend who is quite a prolific fanfic writer. I've pled with them to try creating their own worlds and characters. No, they reply, I'm not very good at that.

Jesus, it's like being a baseball player who can run bases very well, but can't hit the ball. Learning to hit the ball isn't always easy, but it's part of the package. So put the metaphorical rubber rings on your metaphorical Louisville Slugger, and swing away. Dammit.

However, past that point, I diverge with her, in that I don't care. Okay, I do get to do this from the lofty position of a someone who is not a Published Author who must Fight Tooth and Nail to Defend her Vital Intellectual Property.

I am not someone who cares about trademarks or copyright, really, since I have none of my own to defend. I can't, at this moment, tell you which one needs to be defended, which ones need to be registered, or any of the other related quirks of IP law. I can't even tell you if game rules can be copywrited. Copywritten. Protected under copyright law. Copywrite law? Crap, I'm zoning. It's pumpkins all over again.

Anyway. Apparently Robin Hobb has gotten angry, and others have gotten angry back. I try very hard to be interested, but this is way out of my monkeysphere.

Comments

[adamjury.livejournal.com]

Any time an artist can spend attempting to protect their IP is time they could better spend improving and expanding their IP.

[rickj.livejournal.com]

Also, any time an artist spends fiddling in another's IP is time they could better spend developing their own IP. (Except for Work For Hire deals, where they're at least developing their craft, which is the excuse I hear many fanfic writers give.)

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Getting worked up over other people writing fanfic is like getting worked up over an Amazon.com review. Who the fuck is this woman anyway? I've never heard of her or her books; does she actually HAVE fanfic or does the basic concept just piss her off?

[artbroken.livejournal.com]

She's written about 10 fantasy novels that have sold very well.

I don't care for her work, but she's put in the hard yards, no doubt.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Also, for the record, the inverse of a sausage fest is a donut fest. Officially. It's in the OED. Really.

[ludickid.livejournal.com]

I pretty much totally hate fan fiction, and that's still the lamest, dumbest thing I've ever read.

[redeem147.livejournal.com]

I, of course, write and enjoy fanfic, and don't think the woman in question has. Not the good stuff, anyway. So :P

I'd rather read some good Spuffy than crap fantasy any day.

Yes, feel free to mock. Tough beans.

To me fanfic is the literary equivalent of community theatre.

[adamjury.livejournal.com]

Now, actually having read part of the article, I can say without a doubt that this woman is actually pretty ignorant about fan fiction and the people that write it.

At the extreme low end of the spectrum, fan fiction becomes personal masturbation fantasy in which the fan reader is interacting with the writer’s character. That isn’t healthy for anyone.

Yeah, like she's never jerked off.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and Mary Sues are a valuable resource of geek comedy.

[jadasc.livejournal.com]

I can't even tell you if game rules can be copywrited. Copywritten. Protected under copyright law. Copywrite law? Crap, I'm zoning. It's pumpkins all over again.

1. Copyrighted, or protected under copyright law. It's literally "the right to copy," if you want a mnemonic.

2. Game rules cannot be put under copyright; this is why WotC wanted to go to the lengths of patenting the mechanics used in their TCGs. (You can patent a process if it's original.) Game texts, like fiction, can be placed under copyright.

[creativedv8tion.livejournal.com]

I think this is the most telling part:

To me, it is the fan fiction writer saying, “Look, the original author really screwed up the story, so I’m going to fix it. Here is how it should have gone.”

She's insecure about her own stories. It's right there. What kind of author is so insecure that she'll take offense to fanfic?

Hell, doesn't she have any idea that people read her books and say that anyways, w/o writing fanfic? Any author, no matter whom, cannot please everyone, and geeks will argue and discuss and debate what should have been done differently.

Stupid fucking twat. I just got soured on the idea of ever reading anything by her (and honestly, I had considered it.)

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Likewise, although frankly, at this point, I see "The [insert pretentious word or words here] Trilogy" and my brain automatically shuts off. Life's too short to read one book, overwritten.

[indefatigable42.livejournal.com]

Yikes. See, fanfic writers and readers have known about Robin Hobb for a while (and Anne McCaffrey and Anne Rice, for the record). But the most appalling thing about this article making the rounds is that all the geeks who don't like fanfic have suddenly felt brave enough to mock the ones who do.

[waiwode.livejournal.com]

I've always been that brave. I understand Hobb's position, but don't really feel empowered by it.

Mostly I just register my protests against fanfic by avoiding the stuff like the plague.

Doug.

[creativedv8tion.livejournal.com]

There's nothing "sudden" about those of us who disdain fanfic making fun of it, or those who do.

[ladystarstruck.livejournal.com]

Fanfiction seems to be an internet phenomenon, and like many things with regards to the internet, its legalities are not as firm as they should be. Fanfiction would never be publishable in print form without the author's permission, so why is the internet different just because the person puts up a little disclaimer?

I completely agree with Robin Hobb. She doesn't want fanfiction in her setting? Then no one should write it, or argue about it with her, but respect her position. If another author doesn't mind it, or encourages it, that's a different story.

Speaking personally, as a mere wanna-be writer (and not the fanfiction variety), I would like to see a system where the default is that sharing fanfiction is illegal without the express permission of the author involved. A writer should have to specifically seek out that permission before they shared/posted anything written in that author's setting and/or with their characters. I'd like to say that even writing it was wrong, not just the sharing of it which the internet makes so easy, but I can't quite support that, provided it's kept private. Even in print, I don't think it's illegal to write it, just to share it.

When I went to my first (and only) Ad Astra, quite some time ago, I bought a painting at the art show. I ended up in conversation with the artist, and she mentioned a club she belonged to that wrote characters in Pern, in a journal they self-published and distributed (yes, this was pre-internet) amongst themselves. I was astounded! It had never ever occurred to me, even as someone who read voraciously, including Anne McCaffery, and wrote equally voraciously, to do any of that writing in someone else's setting. It was an alien concept. It amazed me that McCaffery allowed it, although she did restrict them to creating their own protagonists; hers were not to be used except in the background. When the artist saw what she assumed was my interest, she offered to let me join the fanclub but I never responded, just feeling like it would be a kind of violation, even if McCaffery had said she didn't mind.

My perspective of disliking it is nothing so noble as trying to prevent the stagnation of fanfiction writers' creativity. No, I'm just a plain old control freak. Assuming I ever do get published someday, that will be MY book. MY setting, MY characters, MY ideas, MINE MINE MINE. Any one else daring to think about using any of it in their own writing will be stepping on MY toes. Or, to be even more melodramatic, RAPING my creativity; taking that which they covet of mine without my consent. It makes no difference if it's the most awful slash, or done better than I can do it. This gets back to the difference between writing it and sharing it. I guess I can't stop someone from fantasizing, but they sure as heck can't touch me without my permission. And I prefer it if they never tell me they dream about me, cause I didn't give them permission to do that either.

So, have I surpassed Robin Hobb?

[creativedv8tion.livejournal.com]

Fanfic is far from an internet phenomenon. Like most so-called phenomena, it merely got more exposure, b/c of the internet. Lots of people who never would have heard of it/been exposed to it have been, and either become writers theirselves or afficianados.

As a teenager, I wrote stories set in the Doctor Who universe about my own Time Lord. That's fanfic, really. I was 13-14 years old, as well.

I think to expect people not to write fanfic is rather unrealistic. To demand that they don't is pretty silly. To compare it to someone not appreciating what you did in a story is downright twattitude.

And I say this as an aspiring writer (of the non fanfic variety) myself.

If you want complete and utter control of your fictional characters, then I suggest you never put them out there. Because when you do, you can't stop me from daydreaming about it, or posting it to a private bbs for my friends to read, and really, that's not different at all from posting fanfic for the sheer writing and posting of it.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Fanfic has been with us since Star Trek; reams of gay porn, mostly.

As far as the legalities go, if nobody is making money off of it, and the proper disclaimers are used, then actually it's a legal grey area. It's an easy case to prove in court but as I've noted elsewhere, most fanfic is actually located on Usenet servers, locked LJs, etc., basically in nooks and crannies of the Internet. I was bored at work so I ran Hobb's names for her concepts through Google: I found zero fanfic in the first fifty results.

As for them raping your creativity, that's an unrealistic expectation. If you put something out there, regardless of what it is and regardless of copyright law, other people are going to run with it. That's kind of the nature of making something public. If you can't accept that, then, well, don't publish.

[thebitterguy]

You've definitely got strong opinions. I find it hard to see a situation where I'd agree that FanFic needs to be made illegal. It would be hard to really prove any sort of harm coming from it. I think it's a good place to start for someone who's trying out their creative legs, and it's good for the occasional "wouldn't it be cool if".

It isn't something that should be what someone refers to as 'their writing'.

[adamjury.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but if you're not: I don't understand why you want to be a published author; you sound like you'd be much happier just writing for yourself*. Publishing is an act of sharing, of infecting people with your ideas. Once you have infected them, the ideas will mutate inside them, bouncing into other ideas and creating alternate scenarios and "what-ifs" -- much like the same process most people use when they write. Everything that someone reads, sees, and consumes shapes their own creative processes and output, and expecting them to somehow not be touched by it in such a way is not something I would expect from a creative person.

Also, if you have a MINE MINE MINE attitude, you probably want to keep it in check when dealing with publishers ... and editors ... and the guy that designs the book cover that you probably won't have any say over in most cases ... and the readers who you don't seem to respect or care about very much.

* That is, actually, one of the most crucial mistakes that Robin Hobb makes in her rant: the idea that all writing should somehow be 'training' for being a published author, and that fanfiction doesn't help teach people how to write. Both of those assertions are false. There is nothing wrong with writing for leisure; we would be foolish to look down on someone who plays a sport for leisure and has no hope of being a professional at it, so why is writing any different?

My Take on FanFic

[harano404.livejournal.com]

Hmm, as a wanna-be author, I look down on fan-fic. I mean if you like my stuff that much, at least have the god damn common courtesy to file off the serial numbers and call it a homage. But, in and of itself, fanfic is pretty innocuous, But then again, so was furry fandom back in the day. Fanfic attracts slashfic/wingfic/ and you name it freaky fic, which is just wrong. They are literally raping my creativity, with like Goku and Strawberry Shortcake!

But the flip side is, I my stuff is properly merchandised, then for every Merchandise item of mine you own, you should be entitled to like 1000 words of fan-fic.:)

Rob (Who dreams of the day when he has IP someone actually wants to steal)

Re: My Take on FanFic

[thebitterguy]

Far as I can see, it's just like kids playing pretend. I don't think some kids playing Star Wars in a sandbox threatens Lucas IP any more than some housewives writing randy Harry Potter wingfic damages Rowling's solid gold faucets.

Now, admittedly, I'm more than willing to shine the 'wrongbadfun' light on freakyfic (I'm large, contain multitudes, and will judge). I hope I write anything anyone wants to fic someday.

So, is there an exchange rate? If someone gets five items of merch, can they write 5000 words of fic, or 1000 words of slash?

[anidada.livejournal.com]

I could write a long rant about this (as someone who majored in cultural studies with a focus on cultural appropriation, even if I didn't read and write fanfic I'd come down on the side of it, for the record), but I just don't have the energy to rebut a wank that's already garnered more attention than it deserves.

So, really, I'm only here as an excuse to use the icon. :)

[thebitterguy]

No, no! Rebut! To the barricades! Once more unto the breech, or block up the wall with Spuffy betas!

YAY FOR THE MONKEYSPHERE

[wholesomedick.livejournal.com]

http://wholesomedick.livejournal.com/144904.html