Religion in comics
Apr. 24th, 2004 11:38 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thebitterguySomeone should do a piece on the evolution of the presentation of religious imagery in comics over DC’s history.
Marvel, although it’s had characters such as the Gargoyle and Angel, has always had a much more pagan world-view. Seriously, aside from Nightcrawler, are there even any Marvel characters with anything resembling JCI religious tendencies?
Aside, of course, from all the evil Arabs. Thanks, Fabio! Fucker.
The occasional Marvel Christmas special would focus mostly on vague generalities of ‘the holiday spirit’, with occasional amusing Doc Sampson Hanukah stories.
And while Death is a frequent romantic interest for Thanos, you never see anything having to do with afterlives or greater powers, at least other than Thor. I’m pretty sure Valhalla/Hel are the default afterlives of the MU.
Even Captain Marvel’s death (in The Death of Captain Marvel) didn’t show him strolling through the pearly gates for a final reward. Of course, that would have required a fleshed out Kree afterworld, or an explanation of why an alien is going to a paradise that’s pretty much that established by humans. Ohhh, the implications.
I think the OHOTMU type listings for the New Universe guys actually listed religious leanings, which was a bit of a shock to my young system at the time. That, and everyone was like a lapsed Anglican or something.
Over in the DCU, the Spectre’s had it be known he’s an agent of God for quite some time; he used to get orders from The Voice about who needed a vengeance dropped on them, and the Demon was a player for the other team.
Since Moore & Gaiman got into the henhouse, there were angelic/dmonic hordes crawling about; remember the Swamp Thing annual where Heaven’s armies met up with the forces of Hell? Or the time Swampie went looking for Abigail in the afterworld?
The way various characters were integrated into the stories were quite interesting. The Spectre was given a very strong presence ("he is opening his eyes"), and Etrigan (the demon) was integrated into a demonic hierarchy. Even the phantom Stranger was given a sort of role in the afterworld, acting as a guide for the elemental hero.
One of the Apocryphal Phantom Stranger origins was that he was a fallen angel, and another was that he was the Wandering Jew.
Sandman had Dream strolling into hell on personal business, and Lucifer hanging up his pitchfork (metaphorically, of course) and handing over the key to hell. He even got his own series a while later, and I believe it involved piano bars.
In the early ‘90s, we got to see how far DC wasn’t willing to go. Does anyone remember the Veitch story about Swamp Thing bouncing through time? Most people familiar with the storyline will be familiar with the speedbump author Rick Veitch hit.
You see, in issue # 88 Swampie was going to pop into early first century CE, where he’d meet up with a ‘white magician’. The story was not going to star Jesus, but I understand His presence would be felt.
The intervening 15 years have blurred my recollections, but DC, in the wake of the controversy surrounding The Last Temptation of Christ, decided that the story wouldn’t go (even though, iirc, it was ready for print), which caused Veitch to quit and write TMNT.
(Update: According to this page about ST #88, it was, indeed, going to be Jesus heavy.)
I wonder if today they’d even hesitate to do such a story. Hell, Ennis would probably make one of the apostles a kid-toucher or something. Friggin’ Irishman.
A while after that, Gaiman started up with theologically interesting stories in his own book, and they spun off Vertigo, where you can have a book like Preacher.
I haven’t read enough of Preacher to get a solid grasp of its position on divine issues and faith, but what I’ve seen makes the White Magician/Swampie as Cross stuff from Veitch’s issue look like an episode of Veggie-Tales.
DC has gone kind Angel crazy lately. Supergirl was an angel for a while, and another angel (Zamiel?) joined the JLA.
Recently, Hal Jordan (the silver age Green Lantern) even took up the mantle of The Spectre, divine force for justice. He even squished the universes back into shape during the JLA/Avengers crossover.
So, yeah. Someone should write about that. The evolution of the presentation of religion as an aspect of the universe constructed for superhero comic books.
Marvel, although it’s had characters such as the Gargoyle and Angel, has always had a much more pagan world-view. Seriously, aside from Nightcrawler, are there even any Marvel characters with anything resembling JCI religious tendencies?
Aside, of course, from all the evil Arabs. Thanks, Fabio! Fucker.
The occasional Marvel Christmas special would focus mostly on vague generalities of ‘the holiday spirit’, with occasional amusing Doc Sampson Hanukah stories.
And while Death is a frequent romantic interest for Thanos, you never see anything having to do with afterlives or greater powers, at least other than Thor. I’m pretty sure Valhalla/Hel are the default afterlives of the MU.
Even Captain Marvel’s death (in The Death of Captain Marvel) didn’t show him strolling through the pearly gates for a final reward. Of course, that would have required a fleshed out Kree afterworld, or an explanation of why an alien is going to a paradise that’s pretty much that established by humans. Ohhh, the implications.
I think the OHOTMU type listings for the New Universe guys actually listed religious leanings, which was a bit of a shock to my young system at the time. That, and everyone was like a lapsed Anglican or something.
Over in the DCU, the Spectre’s had it be known he’s an agent of God for quite some time; he used to get orders from The Voice about who needed a vengeance dropped on them, and the Demon was a player for the other team.
Since Moore & Gaiman got into the henhouse, there were angelic/dmonic hordes crawling about; remember the Swamp Thing annual where Heaven’s armies met up with the forces of Hell? Or the time Swampie went looking for Abigail in the afterworld?
The way various characters were integrated into the stories were quite interesting. The Spectre was given a very strong presence ("he is opening his eyes"), and Etrigan (the demon) was integrated into a demonic hierarchy. Even the phantom Stranger was given a sort of role in the afterworld, acting as a guide for the elemental hero.
One of the Apocryphal Phantom Stranger origins was that he was a fallen angel, and another was that he was the Wandering Jew.
Sandman had Dream strolling into hell on personal business, and Lucifer hanging up his pitchfork (metaphorically, of course) and handing over the key to hell. He even got his own series a while later, and I believe it involved piano bars.
In the early ‘90s, we got to see how far DC wasn’t willing to go. Does anyone remember the Veitch story about Swamp Thing bouncing through time? Most people familiar with the storyline will be familiar with the speedbump author Rick Veitch hit.
You see, in issue # 88 Swampie was going to pop into early first century CE, where he’d meet up with a ‘white magician’. The story was not going to star Jesus, but I understand His presence would be felt.
The intervening 15 years have blurred my recollections, but DC, in the wake of the controversy surrounding The Last Temptation of Christ, decided that the story wouldn’t go (even though, iirc, it was ready for print), which caused Veitch to quit and write TMNT.
(Update: According to this page about ST #88, it was, indeed, going to be Jesus heavy.)
I wonder if today they’d even hesitate to do such a story. Hell, Ennis would probably make one of the apostles a kid-toucher or something. Friggin’ Irishman.
A while after that, Gaiman started up with theologically interesting stories in his own book, and they spun off Vertigo, where you can have a book like Preacher.
I haven’t read enough of Preacher to get a solid grasp of its position on divine issues and faith, but what I’ve seen makes the White Magician/Swampie as Cross stuff from Veitch’s issue look like an episode of Veggie-Tales.
DC has gone kind Angel crazy lately. Supergirl was an angel for a while, and another angel (Zamiel?) joined the JLA.
Recently, Hal Jordan (the silver age Green Lantern) even took up the mantle of The Spectre, divine force for justice. He even squished the universes back into shape during the JLA/Avengers crossover.
So, yeah. Someone should write about that. The evolution of the presentation of religion as an aspect of the universe constructed for superhero comic books.
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no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 09:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 10:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 03:33 pm (UTC)'Tis a nice entry.
And you're right about the religion in comics thing. Indeed, in any media. I remember being flabbergasted when someone started praying in an episode of Voltron, when I was a kid.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 09:35 pm (UTC)The sheer amount of research it would require (in terms of getting books & contacting people) means doing it as a lark would be... Dumb. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 05:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 09:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-26 07:27 am (UTC)Furthermore, comics were teh b0mb when I was in university in the early '90s. Mind you it was all kitchen sink realism Love and Rockets stuff, but the academy has become less elitist (read: more desperate for attention from the real world) since then so I assume they're a little more open to the 'mainstream' titles. I can't imagine it's not out there.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-26 08:10 pm (UTC)