Angel/Buffy theory I had not heard before

[thebitterguy]

From someone on RPG.net (Post 38).




Basically, one of the Powers that Be- later called "Jasmine", has essentially gone insane/was never that great to begin with, and begins manipulating Angel so he fulfills the various conditions necessary for her to manifest on Earth.

Namely, she...

-stops him from comitting suicide (freak snowstorm in "Amends") *
-gets him out of hell

She also sends the vision to Doyle that brings Angel back to Sunnydale. This makes Buffy pissed, so she comes up to LA. They then fight the demon that turns him into a human. Angel then asks to be turned back so he can keep killing stuff- and when the Oracles restore time...Jasmine makes a few alterations.

Then, later on, after Angel goes to the trials to save Darla's life, an "extra life" is created, making Connor possible. Angel then impregnates Darla- and he passes along those alterations Jasmine made all that time ago. Connor is born. Connor has to impregnate Cordelia (possessed by a kind of Jasmine-autopilot) so she can give birth to Jasmine.

*This is the first instance where The First intervened to destroy Angel, and was stopped by Jasmine. Later on, the "ghost of Darla" appears to Connor...it is my estimation that it was the First, trying to stop Jasmine. The "behind the scenes" forces behind both shows can be seen as a grand chess game between the First Evil and the Rogue Power, with the Senior Partners carrying out their own agenda in the middle.

This, of course, still doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense- but the "Guardians" who kept the Scythe worked for the Powers, and Willow's mystical potency was seemingly guided by outside forces at times...

Comments

[anidada.livejournal.com]

That hurts my brain. But I can see how it could work. What I'm wondering is, what does that mean for Wesley and the father-will-kill-the-son prophecy?

[thebitterguy]

I was always under the impression that was placed by the strange time-travelling guy.

I'm half tempted to go rewatch those episodes to find out for sure.

[jholloway.livejournal.com]

That's right. Shajahn (or whatever) faked up the father-will-kill-the-son prophecy in order to remove what he saw as a threat to himself, IIRC.

[elizard100.livejournal.com]

It actually makes a lot of sense about creating the new life which becomes Connor but the rest is confusing. Not saying it's not possible, it's just confusing.

[thebitterguy]

I like how he puts it all together, though. The positing of The First Evil and Jasmine as rivals is really neat. They never did explain how Angel got out of hell, for instance.

[elizard100.livejournal.com]

Well the whole Skip thing was sort of a catch-all.

[granolademonic.livejournal.com]

I like listening to the writers explain what the hell Dawn is; seems like they're not even properly sure themselves.

Meanwhile, I dig this guy's theory, but I think it's more intricate than the writers ever intended (or even were capable of.)

The whole Trials-for-Darla thing (sounds like a pledge drive) reminds me of something I can't quite remember: did Drusilla survive both series? Is she still out there somewhere, or did she get staked or something in one series or another and I just forgot about it?

I like the idea that she's still out there, but on the other hand, it's funny that she would survive when so many others died.

[thebitterguy]

Dru was last seen trying to get Spike back to the dark side. She pretty much vanished back to central America after that, to spend quality time with her demonic boyfriend.

I think the plot is a bit more complicated than I can see it being intentionally; Joss' attention wandered too much for it to be any focussed plan. But the pieces all fall together anyway, don't they?

[granolademonic.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, it's certainly a compelling theory. I'm geek enough that I could read such things all day.

[kinra.livejournal.com]

I like that conceptualization of things, though I think that the First's plan wasn't just to stop Jasmine, but to basically "kill hope". It makes more sense from a Jossy perspective, that Angel, Jasmine or not, was a force for hope and inspiration (that's sort of the series' thesis statement, and their ultimate closing argument).

But what's interesting is how Jasmine actually transcends hope and makes "evil" basically impossible, so the First Evil wouldn't have much to work with, there.