It's quite the thing to see

[thebitterguy]

Just got to a Certain Point in KoTOR.

Wow. Lemme say this: Quite the plot twist. Totally caught me by surprise. I think it might even be as good as the one that got dropped on us in Empire.

Comments

[mouseferatu.livejournal.com]

I'm not playing, and don't plan to play, the game.

Any chance of a spoiler? You can e-mail, if you don't want to risk someone stumbling across it. :-)

[rentagurkha.livejournal.com]

It's a goody, all right. I clued in just before the game revealed it. The amazing thing is that they set it up nicely without giving you quite enough info to see it coming, but once you know it, everything makes perfect sense.

[whisper-jeff.livejournal.com]

Playing it a second time, I realized they actually outright tell you what it is within about the first five minutes of playing, but it is done so subtly that you have no clue - it just sounds like colour dialogue. They forshadow the event so incredibly well.

And I agree with Justin - it's one of those surprises that has you going "Holy crap!... Wow... Ok, that's freakin' cool!"

I've said it before - I'll say it again - the game is so incredibly well-done. _This_ is the sort of thing I'd like to see made into a movie rather than the crap that Lucas is filming...

[rentagurkha.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, the eternal lament of the Star Wars fanboy. ;-)

Of course, I'm one of those heretics who believes that Empire isn't all that great either. I think the series pretty much gets by on Star Wars.

As for the prequels, I think most of their problems are inherent in what they are and their relation to the other films. Granted, they could be better (he said, trying not to flash back to the love scenes between Amidala and Anakin), but trying to write a tragedy that would be palatable to the SW age group is a challenge that would defeat a far better writer than Lucas.

[whisper-jeff.livejournal.com]

First, I enjoyed Episode 4 more than 5. Empire is a great movie, but I like A New Hope more.

Second, I think it is entirely possible to create a fantastic Star Wars story that would appeal to new audiences and please hardcore SW fans. The first step is to not create a movie for Lucas's kids. Because I knew Lucas was making a movie for his kids, Episode 1 didn't offend me - it was what I expected. It wasn't what I wanted, but it was what I expected. Episode 2, however, was both fantastic and horrendous. The stuff with Obi Wan was excellent. The stuff with Anakin and Amidala was written by someone in prison because that was the most insanely fucked love story I've ever seen. Half of that movie is great. The other half sucked rocks. And don't even get me started on how Lucas totally blew the chance for a wonderfully epic fall of Vader and went with a far lamer "oh, bad things happened and that pushed him over the edge" route... Sidious (which is a stupid name) should have been responsible for Anakin's mother's death. Her demise, which prompted his fall, should have been orcestrated by Palpatine. Sadly, Lucas has forgotten how to craft an intelligent story...

I'm still looking forward to Episode 3 because I know it will have elements that I will love, but I expect the story to be quite bad... Sadly...

Ah, if only other people could be allowed to make SW movies - we might get fantastic tales like the plot of Knights of the Old Republic. Instead, we get Episode 2: Prison Bitch.

[rentagurkha.livejournal.com]

So what you are saying to me is that you expected a Star Wars movie to contain emotional complexity? That is what you wrote, yes?

>Sadly, Lucas has forgotten how to craft an intelligent story...

Which movie are you thinking of that shows him once having this ability?

>Ah, if only other people could be allowed to make SW movies - we
>might get fantastic tales like the plot of Knights of the Old
>Republic.

We might. On the other hand I have read many of the SW novels and comics, and believe me when I tell you it could also be far, far worse.

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, but I love it because that five-year old kid who had to go to the first showing in 1977 is still inside me somewhere. Star Wars hasn't changed, really. We have.

[whisper-jeff.livejournal.com]

So what you are saying to me is that you expected a Star Wars movie to contain emotional complexity? That is what you wrote, yes?
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Did I expect it? No, because Episode 1 showed me that Lucas had forgotten how to craft a tale and thus my expectations for Episode 2 dropped hard. There should have been emotional complexity and depth to the story, if written by a better writer, but...

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>Sadly, Lucas has forgotten how to craft an intelligent story...
Which movie are you thinking of that shows him once having this ability?
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I think the first three movies (episodes 4-6) show that he previously had the ability to craft an intelligent story. Or at least to surround himself with people who could do so. Now he seems to surround himself with yes-men who don't tell him "Uh, George, that sucks ass."

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We might. On the other hand I have read many of the SW novels and comics, and believe me when I tell you it could also be far, far worse.
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Oh, I know. But there have also been some outstanding stories that have been crafted.

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Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, but I love it because that five-year old kid who had to go to the first showing in 1977 is still inside me somewhere. Star Wars hasn't changed, really. We have.
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I totally disagree. A New Hope, for example, was an excellent movie when I was five years old and it's still an excellent movie. It shows its age simply in the special effects and the like, but the story it tells is strong and stands the test of time. Episode 1 and 2 are only cool because they have cool scenes. Strip out all the cutting edge special effects and replace them with the special effects of A New Hope's era and Episode 1 and 2 fall appart because their stories aren't strong enough to hold the movie up. The special effects would be neat once and then repeat viewings would become insufferable because the stories are so weak. The first three movies, however, don't suffer from that - I can happily watch any one of them and still completely enjoy the experience. The poor (by today's standards) special effects are the only weakness - the stories are strong (some stronger than others, but each strong in its own right). Thus, I don't think we've changed - I think the Star Wars movies have changed. The old ones are excellent. The new ones are cool. Cool may be entertaining, but it is not necessarily good...

[rentagurkha.livejournal.com]

There should have been emotional complexity and depth to the story...

Again, where has Lucas done this? As I understand it, his involvement in Episodes 5 & 6 was somewhat limited, and SW itself rarely rises above the level of "I was going into Toschi Station to pick up some power converters."

OK, that's a little unfair; the scene where Luke drives up to his home to find it destroyed by the Empire does have some real power. I suspect, though, that the limitations of the special effects are why Lucas was able to put together a better story in SW, because he couldn't rely on the special effects to replace other things. If he could have relied on spectacle, I suspect he would have.

I will be interested to see how people react to Episode III...